Tarmon Gai'don *SPOILERS*

[Tony]

Basically, discuss what you think is going to happen when the Last Battle. For instance, will Rand die? Will Mat and Perrin die with him or live on to rebuild a new world? Will Perrin resurect Manetheran? Here are my thoughts.

The Last Battle will come like a wave. They'll hit the relaxed Borderlands and almost cripple them. With the allied forces of the Seanchan along with the Aiel and other various country armsmen they'll rush to the Borderlands to defend the southern area of Randland. Aes Sedai and Asha'man will form circles of channelers to take down Dreadlords and mass amounts of Shadowspawn. I also think we'll see some new Shadowspawn that have and havn't been mentioned yet. Like wyrms.

With the mass amounts of troops up north no one will pay attention to the southern half where a surprise attack will happen in one of the cities. Maybe Tear. With Mat's invention of guns and cannons he'll defeat the attack and save the Stone of Tear (all other buildings will have been destroyed by the Trollocs and Myddraal because that's the way they are).

Perrin will help direct armies up in the Borderlands until Mat can come and they'll both cooperate together to form great strategies.

With the fighting between Shadowspawn and humans, Rand will take a group of channelers to Shayol Ghul to defeat the last of the Forsaken. With them out of the way Rand must defeat Shadar Haran, which he does. But the strain of defeating the Forsaken and Shadar Haran takes a toll on him, but he can still patch the Bore. He patches the Bore right as his wound breaks open from the strain and when his blood hits the rocks, it's sealed. He's rushed away to be Healed, but it is too late and he dies after a couple of days.

Perrin, Mat, and the Asha'man permantly unites Randland together. Perrin apoints men and women to different regions to act as governers because the area is so large. The people apoint Perrin as King and Perrin makes Mat his top general.

That is basically what I think may happen. Most of it is probably wrong.

[Victor]

I don't really have any theories of my own, as it's been awhile since I've read the series. But some of the suggestions that you made, Tony, I'd like to make some comments on.

I also think we'll see some new Shadowspawn that have and havn't been mentioned yet.

That's an interesting thought I hadn't really considered. Some type of wyrm would be interesting, or perhaps a sort of sea monster. Super-powered trollocs or Myrdraal would be sort of generic. Hopefully, if Jordan does do this, he'll come up with something original.

With the mass amounts of troops up north no one will pay attention to the southern half where a surprise attack will happen in one of the cities. Maybe Tear. With Mat's invention of guns and cannons he'll defeat the attack and save the Stone of Tear (all other buildings will have been destroyed by the Trollocs and Myddraal because that's the way they are).

Extremely good point about the undefended south. But I don't feel that Rand would even think of not bringing Mat north with him, whether it be by dropping in and gating him to the Blight or stopping by with an army for Mat to tag along with. What other armies than Mat would be capable of defending the south? I'm not disagreeing completely, just thinking up other possibilities. Perhaps the Whitecloak army could be convinced?

As for the unification of Randland, I think that bit is too optimistic. I have little else to say on the topic and can't back it up because it's only speculation, but I do remember Jordan saying that not all conflicts would be resolved by the end of the series.

A couple topics that interest me: What will be the role of the Ogier in the Last Battle, if they have a role at all? And, of course, who will die?

[Tony]

Maybe the Aiel know the Song so they teach it to the Tinkers and the Tinkers go find the Ogier and together they grow food for the arimes.

Or the Seanchan Ogier train all the Ogier in Randland to fight and kill. And in return the Ogier of Randland teach them about the Great Trees or whatever.

Maybe the army won't be Mat's, but maybe it's part of the Seanchan invasion. Or a group of people from Shara even though Jordan said they wouldn't play a major part in the story.

I would like to know what role the Sea Folk are going to play. They came in sort of late in the series and all they have really done is fix the weather.

[Taigikori]

If Rand dies, I will become emo.

[Jaske]

I don't think Rand will die. I think he'll be injured, but will live. One interesting theory I saw was him dieing, but then Nynaeve figuring out how to heal death and reviving him. it would definity make sense for Perrin to become a king and Mat his top general, if you think about. it.

I also think Mazrim Taim along with the Asha'amn loyal to him might be the new dreadlords. It certainly seems like it, judging by the end of KoD.

[Temanin]

Rand is half-blind, a big hole in his side, one hand, sickness when embracing the Source, and a madman in his head that sometimes takes the One Power from him. And I bet the boy has a limp, too. He isn't looking up for a battle at the moment...

Perrin will be king, I'm pretty sure. Or step aside for someone he deems worthy. Mat's got general written all over him, though he regrets bringing gunpowder to the world and will possibly walk away and live with his guilt in solitude. As for Taim, methinks he's a new Forsaken, or at least in the running to become one. The DO has to replace the ones he's lost, after all.

*KoD rules*

[Nameless1]

i've been re-reading the books again, and i'm thinking the end of the Last Battle is going to be a good bit different than most believe.

i don't think Rand will die. my theory is a little weird so bear with me. This whole series seems to be turning into a family affair.

i'll get into those specifics later, i'm a bit tired currently and the match-up i had in my mind isn't coming together coherently right now. short non-explained version Moraine = Rand's aunt. Galad and Luc= Rand's half-brother. Isam = Lan's relative ( i don't remember the exact match-up

in two different places however, the prophecies say "his blood" (shall bring us the Light/on the rocks...) i don't think Jordan means literally "his blood". I'm thinking more along the line of "his relatives" or "his bloodline"

"His blood will bring us the Light." If you were to go by my theory, that would most likely put Galad there. Is he not the Captain Commander of the Children of the Light currently? Could also be referring to the unborn twins Elayne is carrying. I'm thinking they'll be born before the last battle. Jordan wouldn't spend all that time convincing us Elayne is powerful to have her sit out in the final conflict that will decide the fate of the Pattern.

"His blood on the rocks..." It could simply be refering to one of his relatives. True that's an easy explanation, but, perhaps one of those relatives will be the one that actually dies, and not Rand. Could also be that the Luc/Isam amalgam will "return to the Light" and in so doing sacrfice itself to save Rand.

The other "outside the box" theory. Will Rand die? No. I don't think so. Not as in death, die, anyways. I'm thinking Jordan is playing with the word again. there are other forms of death. Surrender for example. If you give up everything you believe in, is that not a form of death? a rebirth if you will. "to live, you must die." and there is someone ( i forgot her name), who will help Rand "die". Perhaps, help him realize what he has to do.

This might well be the Frodo/Grollom ending all over again. Hero who does everything up to the end, and has it finished by someone else in need of redeeming.

i've theories for the others as well, but it's power-nap time. hopefully i'll be able to remember that family connection bit. It's mostly in books 1 and 2, if you've all a lot of time on your hands. =D

[Tony]

That sounds like a great theory and it makes a lot of sense. And one of Min's viewings of the three of them in a boat with a body could be Galad who sacraficed himself.

As for Rand dying, I think he may make it look like he died so he can live the rest of his life peacefully and not be bombarded with nobles after the Last Battle. I mean, I wouldn't want to be bugged after I finished what I was meant to do.

[Metzgermeister]

Nameless that's actualy quite good Deep insight. What if it's Lews Therin who dies in the last battle, he could be seen as a part of Rand I suppose.

[Tony]

Lews Therin is nothing more than a side effect of the taint. The taint would lessen if Rand felt more emotions. That is why Cadsuane got him angry all those times. Emotion keeps the madness at bay. If noticed there was a time period where Lews Therin had disappeared. As soon as Cadsuane left, Rand wasn't angry anymore and Lews Therin returned.

But I do believe that deep down inside of him, Rand is in touch with Lews Therin and maybe the other Dragons. That is why he gets these new weaves. I mean, he can't just be fumbling around and get lucky everytime. But then he is ta'veran, so I guess he could.


And Metz, do you know your avatar does not show? That just really bugs me that there is a box there for it, but no picture.

[Metzgermeister]

That's weird. It shows for me...


Edit: What about now?

[Temanin]

I can see it, I can see it! ^^

[Tony]

Yep, it's there now.

Back to the original topic.

You think all the Forsaken will be destroyed or will there be some left to wreck havoc when the Bore is sealed?

[Metzgermeister]

Sweet. Anyway, I think that some will escape, while others (like Ishamael was) be sealed near to the surface of the Bore and be reborn. Yeah, and the rest will die.

[Nameless1]

another mini-theory popped in my head tonight at work. being exhausted seems to bring up good WoT theories.

what if Rand does indeed die, but someone else uses balefire on the Dark One, nulling his existence. Period. No Dark One. Ever.

True, this would probably unravel the known Pattern, but it could weave something else, something more...our world like. Yeah yeah, not very likely, but it'd be interesting if Jordan did.

Course, perhaps the balefire use would be just enough to null out the death of the Dragon. I can't think of a better way to die and come back to life. Aviendha already had her life extended that way. I wouldn't put it past Jordan to use that again.

If balefire destroyed him, that would pretty much decimate all the plans the Forsaken have been building for millenia. No more immortality throughout the Ages. They'd be regular old humans just like everybody else, which just might be enough to cause a few of them, not many, but just enough to turn back to the Light and go against the "new Dreadlords" and such.

i'll look up those connections soon, I swear, but it looks like i'm out of time again today.

Until later...